Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

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WilburWhateley
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Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

Post by WilburWhateley »

La L-sit me mataba, llevaba años con 5-10 segundos con una forma horrible y temblorosa.

Leroy puso un enlace a este artículo-vídeo de Antranik: http://antranik.org/active-pike-compression/
Me ha ido muy bien, ya estoy en 25 segundos muy sólidos con forma perfecta. También estoy mejorando la compresión y consigo meter las piernas en ángulo más cerrado de los 90º...


Objetivos a largo plazo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BamK6eoKZ_Y


PS: Dadle una oportunidad, la L sit vale la pena.
PPS: Mejor en suelo o en anillas, que en paralelas.
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Reover
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Re: Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

Post by Reover »

Justo estaba pensando en meter comprensión cada día junto con las pistols. Pero he estado tan ocupado que apenas he podido hacer las cosas que ya tengo programadas :|
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BIGDIPPER
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Post by BIGDIPPER »

Compresion abdominal que es? De que sirve?
Cualquiera que pese menos de 90 kilos es una mujer.
Reover
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Re: Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

Post by Reover »

Para comprender lee el artículo :roll:
joroge
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Re: Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

Post by joroge »

Os dejo unas buenas progresiones para ir de Lsit a manna, tienen pintaza:

https://instagram.com/p/BQ1zb2OlbEK/

Ni que decir tiene que aparte hay que trabajar la elasticidad en pike, compresión abdominal y el apoyo con el hombro en extensión.
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WilburWhateley
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Re: Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

Post by WilburWhateley »

Tremendo, Jorge!
Valerosos, despreocupados, irónicos y violentos; así nos quiere la sabiduría.
zamp
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Re: Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

Post by zamp »

Nunca me he preocupado por este ejercicios porque no me llamaba mucho y me parecía ciencia ficción llegar a algo remotamente parecido al V-sit, del manna ya ni hablamos. Pero con este hilo me habéis animado a ir metiendolo en mis entrenamientos.

Gracias Wilbur por el aporte y joroge por ese video.

Un saludo.
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BIGDIPPER
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Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

Post by BIGDIPPER »

zamp wrote:Nunca me he preocupado por este ejercicios porque no me llamaba mucho y me parecía ciencia ficción llegar a algo remotamente parecido al V-sit, del manna ya ni hablamos. Pero con este hilo me habéis animado a ir metiendolo en mis entrenamientos.

Gracias Wilbur por el aporte y joroge por ese video.

Un saludo.
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Cualquiera que pese menos de 90 kilos es una mujer.
joroge
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Re: Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

Post by joroge »

El vídeo me parece que propone unas progresiones muy inteligentes, y eso que es de instagram. Por ejemplo, por comparar los de GBodies proponen pasar del middle split hold (que es relativamente fácil de conseguir) directamente a elevaciones a manna... y uno se queda flipando porque el salto es gigantesco.

Yo estoy empezando a entrenar tb para el Vsit, es una skill que me encanta pero que he entrenado muy intermitentemente por darle prioridad a otras. Estaría bien intercambiar trucos y opiniones por aquí.

Para flex de pike básicamente estoy dándole a 2 ejercicios; a los jefferson curls (que creo que va de lujo si te lo tomas con cautela a la hora de cargar la barra) y a bajar el torso hacia delante sentado en el suelo y con las piernas totalmente estiradas. Concretamente estoy experimentando muchas ganancias con este último. Lo hago con un pie encima de un foam roller y el otro en el suelo, así la pierna de arriba estira mucho más. Después hago otra serie con el foam en la otra pierna, y después con las dos en el suelo sin nada. Es brutal lo que se baja en la tercera serie. Todo esto lo superserieo con elevaciones sentado, aguantando arriba con pequeños rebotes, haciéndolo por un determinado tiempo más que por repes. Este protocolo de estiramiento+elevaciones lo recomienda Steven Low, el de overcoming gravity. Yo le añado los rebotes y el foam porque para mí es aún más efectivo así.

Para los aguantes en si, lo que hago es hacer 2/3 series de la máxima dificultad que puedo (en concreto el v-sit con ambas piernas dobladas) y después hago otras 3/4 de una dificultad más fácil para acumular más segundos. Así trabajo con una especie de intensidad ondulada. Esto lo incorpore a otras skills y ya me funcionó muy bien así que espero que tb de frutos para esta Skill.

Bueno espero que os sirva, me encantaría leer vuestra opinión.
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WilburWhateley
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Re: Compresión abdominal, L sits y más allá

Post by WilburWhateley »

Tocho reciente en Reddit sobre el Manna, con la bendición de Antranik al OP:

Hello all,

I have recently achieved the Manna. As there aren’t too many tutorials out there for this element, I decided to make one myself. This is based on the route that I took, as well as what I would have done differently, so take the following with a grain of salt. What works for me may not for you, and vice versa. I will go through the different aspects, progressions, and the technique. A note: This path will almost certainly lead to a solid V-sit if you follow it correctly.

Here is the Manna described by FIG: http://i.imgur.com/8XnxUit.png

My progression (first picture is August 2016, last is February 2017): http://imgur.com/a/pAL1w

The Manna requires a few different things: shoulder extension/retraction strength (SER), pike compression and mobility (PiCM), and pancake compression and mobility (PaCM). While there are other small things (wrists, balance), I see these three aspects as the main block in one’s training for the Manna.

SER:

This is something a lot of people lack. I used the following to get stronger in it:

Standing shoulder extension with weight, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS_JIvS-Pqo. This should be a staple for training the Manna.

German hang to gain SER mobility. To gain perspective, I can dislocate from German hang. I worked up to an easy 5x30s on rings, with my body essentially completely perpendicular to the floor.

Reverse plank and leans. My first progression in order to understand this was the table drill (https://leanpub.com/site_images/thehipc ... le-top.jpg). I worked up at 5x30s to make sure I had a solid feeling and endurance in the position. From there, extend the legs to make a reverse plank. Fingers should be towards your feet or slightly turned out. Once you are strong in this position (3x30s), you can begin to lean back. You will not be able to lean much, but it will get better over time. SER should always be first priority, not the leaning. Hands will continue to face forward to stress the triceps and allow lean, as hands backwards will not.

PiCM:

Mobility/flexibility must be established before any meaningful progress in compression can occur.

Adding weight is very helpful to get deeper in the stretch. See Emmet’s LPS video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=askyPISMogs). I approached pike mobility from two angles:

Hamstrings: I used Emmet’s Head to Toe protocol (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HVsDRjOHqU) to develop some more flexibility in my hamstring and calves, and got a cool stretch in the process (http://imgur.com/blDXr1c)!

Back. While doing pike work, I would actively focus on my back for the stretch. Try and flatten it to get deeper.

For compression, I exclusively used these drills (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQXnOuQqKYc) in between my sets of pike work.

PaCM:

This is a huge weak link in everyone I’ve met.

I highly recommend Kit Laughlin’s Mastering the Pancake (https://kitlaughlin.com/Master_Series_P ... ancake.pdf), but there are other resources.

To develop mobility, I immediately started to use weight to get deeper, holding it 60s every time. Goal is chest and stomach to ground. In hindsight, this is probably not a good idea for the general population, so be careful.

For compression, same ideas as pike work. Sit in straddle, and lift the legs as high as possible. As I said before, I see these three as the main obstacles in Manna training. With that said, reverse engineering the Manna will not work. You cannot train all three of these separately, then expect to magically get it.




Before I continue, my training has been sporadic. I ran competitively, so I would train (strength) for a while, break, strength, etc., all while running quite a bit (40-50 miles per week). I have not strength trained for more eight months consecutively. I included this to show that the Manna is achievable in a shorter amount of time than most think, but, then again, I started when I was 17.

I got my first 45° V-sit in late 2014. I didn’t train this very much anymore, until February 2015. My first real Manna attempt was this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjK_mQ0l89Q). I stopped training, picked it up again over the summer of 2015, stopped, then started to train it seriously again this past August. I attribute my ability to pick it back up to familiar motor patterns, such as this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ysypXBxKVE). Strength may recede, but your body’s understanding of the position takes a long time to deteriorate.

The progressions are as follows and should all be done on the floor or parallel bars (preferably floor). Do not worry about hand/wrist positioning until it says to. The numbers in parentheses establish the order (same numbers means you can work the elements simultaneously) and recommended set x rep scheme, respectively:

(1, 3x15-30s) L-sit and progressions: This is to help establish basic PiCM and depression strength.

(2, 3x15-30s) Straddle L-sit and progressions: This is to help establish basic PaCM. Legs are preferably parallel to the floor or at an upward angle, but a bit less than that is fine.

(2, 3x15s) Advanced L-sit and progressions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u65MPOxux_s): Starting with tuck, actively push the hips forward so they are in line with (or even in front of) your hands and your back is flat. Work up to 3x15s, extend the legs a bit, rinse and repeat. The scapulas should be relatively neutral, if a bit retracted.

From here, the Manna specific progression begin. Start working with hands backwards to get accustomed to the position. There is not really a solid set x rep scheme to follow, just use your judgment.

(3) Tuck V-sit/Manna: The idea is to push the hips forward, while lifting them up. See beginning of this video before I extend my legs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjK_mQ0l89Q.

(4) Straddle high V-sit: From the tuck V-sit/Manna, extend the legs out in either direction, looking like this: http://www.shopgi.com/gymnastics/b1_flo ... eV-Sit.JPG. This is where PaCM comes into play.

(4) High V-sit: Once you develop strength in the straddle high V-sit, bring your legs together. This is where PiCM helps.

(5) Manna: Your legs will continue to get higher and higher in both straddle V-sit and high V-sit until they are eventually parallel. Having excellent PiCM helps, as does losing a few pounds and hoping it comes off of your thighs and mid-section, so it’s not in the way!

(6) High Manna: One of the rarest moves in the world, but not many people train it. From Manna, lift your legs while maintaining hip height. Follow these GB videos for progressions:
Manna Lifts 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9M-_VxzP9U
Manna Lifts 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmNPe6-Y-NA


Technique:

While most of it is strength and compression/mobility, there are certain techniques to help entering and holding it.

Balance became an issue once I got to the high V-sit stage. To help this, I used the cambered hand position (http://chrissalvato.com/2013/02/what-is ... technique/) to grip the ground.

Your primary focus is focusing on pushing the hips up and out. You can have all the PiCM in the world, but if your hips are not high enough, then your legs will not be parallel, thus no Manna. As hips elevate, your legs will come closer to parallel. You should also focus on pushing the shoulders forward while raising hips to help balance out the weight.

To enter the positions of (4) and (5), it is best to start in a compressed butterfly stretch (http://imgur.com/0sVCIyK). This helps you to compress immensely. You can work on getting into them from other positions later.

Point your toes. This goes without saying.

Once you get to (4), start tilting your head back to look at the ceiling. It will get in the way of your legs if you don’t and helps you to get a bit higher.


Advice/Suggestions:

Do these when you are fresh and warmed-up to get the most out of it. I would always do these after my warm-up and HS work.

You should continue to do your normal training in addition to this to ensure a balanced body and healthy shoulders.

I kept reverse plank leans in my training. They keep my shoulders healthy and train the triceps well for the Manna.

I trained Manna directly and indirectly once a week (two days). For the direct day, I would do four Manna attempts (getting my high V-sit higher), then do 3 sets of tuck V-sit/Manna or straddle V-sit, not trying to go high, but rather reinforce strength in the position. For the indirect day, I would train L-sit and tuck V-sit for a few sets each.

Wrists should be flexible. I suggest doing novel wrist movements (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlWgH3_0NU) once or twice a day along with stretching beforehand. This video also helps for all-around wrist strength: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU5UCh_E6Ns.

I got forearm splits from falling backwards while my wrists were turned backwards… Ouch. I now like to train it with a couch or mats behind me to catch myself if I lose balance and fall backwards.

Losing weight (preferably fat!) will actually help. While spot reduction is impossible, a lower weight at the same strength is better, and some may come off of the mid-section and thighs. I am not “ripped” by any means, and think this would have helped a lot.

I hope this of some help to those whose goal is the Manna, or even V-sit. Feel free to ask me any questions about my training, or if you have a suggestion. I will update this as I see fit.



También hay comentarios interesantes en el hilo:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitn ... _tutorial/



A mannear! 8-)
Valerosos, despreocupados, irónicos y violentos; así nos quiere la sabiduría.
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